As I was driving home I reran the day’s events. I remembered the conversation in the library and reran through it a few times. When I got to the last part about us being adults, I became quite irritated. Does that mean that setting up boundaries is not a good idea? If so, how about we see if our school library can get some issues of Playboy on the racks? Or what about adding a campus pub next to
Tuesday, February 19, 2008
Nice Rack
Today I walked into Hiebert Library to find a last minute article for a class presentation. On my way past the magazines racks I noticed a Sports Illustrated magazine which had a bikini bottom wearing woman on it with what looked like beads partially covering her breasts. I had to find the article so I went and completed that task. On my way out however I stopped at the front desk and spoke with a librarian who was conversing with a student employee. I asked them if the library had any guidelines about what magazines came into the library or their content. I got two confused looks. I then asked more specifically if there was anything that kept magazines with inappropriate material off the racks, again confusion. So I said, “For example, the current Sports Illustrated magazine that’s on the rack.” The librarian said that since it was February Sports Illustrated puts out a sales pitch for regular edition subscribers to check out the swimsuit edition. The librarian explained that if the library was a public library which had children walking about then a different location might be found for the issue. However, if a person did not care for the cover then they could turn the magazine over so the cover was against the rack instead of facing outward. The final comment given to me was that “we are all adults here”.
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25 comments:
I wrote this to post on the campus message board which is online. I suspect that there will be quite a bit of discussion.
Now, picture yourself raising a 9 year old boy in this environment. What will the "norm" be like for him? Better yet, what will the "norm" be like for children that you & Tasha might be blessed to raise together? The temptation is EVERYWHERE- public libraries, school libraries, you name it. If we were all "adult" as the librarian mentioned, then the media wouldn't be influencing how women chose to dress. Women then would be "adult" enough not to listen to the media & to dress moderately. Men then would be "adult" enough not to look at women that were not their own. Basically, we're not all "adult" enough. Basically, we are in a world continually filled with temptations. It's what we choose to do with those temptations that's different. Just last week, I received a call from a friend in tears. She had accessed her DAD's computer & viewed a whole 2nd life that she didn't suspect her dad had. It is truly rocking her world. I could actually go on & on about this topic and one day I might just write a book. But, for now, I say thanks for sharing and for allowing me to share. Kari
I walked into the library just now and its been replaced by another issue. :P
kyle. if more of those men and women who go to the college next door to this library would stand up and protest, it would be changed! the problem isn't ALL the media, some of it rides on the very backs of the people who say it disgusts them and yet do nothing about it or participates in it themselves. we live in the free world here, make your voice known. doesn't mean it is going to change, but then you can't say YOU didn't try! i commend you on speaking out. it is never wrong to do what is right. God Bless tootie
Son - You make me proud. I tried to show you as you were growing up to stand up for what you believe it. I can remember you boys were small getting embarrassed when I spole out. But you began to change and follow what the Lord was teaching you.
Yes, I would be angry too. I might have had thoughts about throwing away the magazine first. But I'm glad you did it the right way. Continue to stand up for what is right and what God lays on your heart.
Re: Nice Rack
Sports Illustrated is not Porn; Hardly a distraction in one 8.5" by 11" section of our whole entire 42 acre campus. There are more important things to be concerned about in life.
Posted by V.D.
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Re: Nice Rack
Perhaps presenting that SI's Swimsuit Edition (which this magazine wasn't but its cover was used to invoke interest of subscribing from regular members) is inappropriate is just my personal conviction.
I did not say that it was porn. However let's discuss. Using today's definition of porn the SI Swimsuit Edition would not be lumped in together with Playboy or Hustler. Some would probably say that it is tasteful and artistic. Think about what was deemed inappropriate 50 years ago. Compare that to what is deemed inappropriate currently. There's a huge spasm between these two.
What I see, and you don't have to agree nor did I expect many or any to agree with me, is that the line that the church once had did not stay where it was but instead kept the same distance. So as the line was moved they moved. What I see is a degeneration of the values and morality and conviction that Christians once had. No longer are we in the world but not of it but we look so much like the world that there's no really knowing you're a Christian unless you wear a cross around your neck or a WWJD bracelet.
Posted by Kyle Guess
Re: Nice Rack
Well where do you draw the line as a University? On one hand you claim to be a Christian University so you have to have high moral values and standards. On the other hand the school has to act like a business and appeal to all of its customers. Since not every Christian believes the same thing where is the middle ground is a hard question. This school has a few shady things going on but i guess it believes it has to survive at a level it wants to be at.
Posted by K.M.
RE: Nick Rack
It might not be porn, but after talking to several guys on the issue (no pun intended), anything like that is a distraction. Guys take things at different levels. To say that "there are more important things to be concerned about" seems like you're downplaying the issue. It's still an issue. Might not be for you, but for others, maybe.
And Kevin, yes, a school is a business. But at what cost? It doesn't mean you need to lessen your standards or values in order to appeal to the world. There are plenty of ways to do that. It's not a question of middle ground, its the fact that no one stands up for anything anymore. I agree that the fuzziness that is so prevalent in society is disheartening.
We're supposed to live among the world, not become like it in order to please it.
Peace.
Posted by K.P.
RE: Nice Rack
I think a lot of people stand up for things, Kyle writting about that magazine issue. It is just usually the people who do speak out get over looked or most other people dont care. Its not easy situation
Posted by K.M.
Re: Nice Rack
Hehe...I don't think they get overlooked, they just get ignored. Either that, or people don't know how to respond properly.
Posted by K.P.
I got a phone call from a very cool kid. He called and told me a little story about a visit to Target he had with his mom. He is very much into sports. They walked down the magazine isle and he noticed a Sports Illustrated issue. He pointed it out and commented to his mom that Target doesn't usually carry SI. Then he and noticed that it was the "bikini issue". I asked him what he thought about it. Mind you this comes from a 9 year old - "Why don't they carry the sports issue?" So I asked why he thought that they had the "bikini issue" (as he called it). He said, "Maybe because more people are interested in it instead of sports."
V.P. commented "There are more important things to be concerned about in life." Okay, how about the innocence of our children?
Re: Nice Rack
Kyle, you raise up a great issue with great points. It is interesting what is labeled as "adult content" and "mature" in our society. Some might even say that what we define as mature content may actually be immature.
This issue, however, is far more complicated than it seems. Could we be assuming too much by saying that an magazine can be a temptation? James 1:14 says, "but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed." (NIV). Does the fault lie with the magazine or with us (perhaps in this specific situation, us as males)? James mentions it is our own evil desire that drags us away and entices; furthermore, that this desire leads to sin (verse 15). Jesus mentions something similar in Mark 7:20-23: "He went on: 'What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance, and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean'" (NIV). Jesus seems to imply that it is our hearts that are the issue, not some magazine or object. Objects themselves are not sinful, but can be used for sinful purposes based on how we as humans interpret them. (I think it is for this reason that Paul mentions what he does in Philippians 4:8.)
How do we approach this situation then? In his Sermon on the Mount Jesus addresses this issue (Matthew 5: 27-30). This is the passage that refers to the removal of limbs that cause us to stumble. Of course very few people take it literally, although their have been famous Christians, such as Origen, who did take this literally. Most people suggest that Jesus is speaking about removing the objects from one's life that cause one to stumble. But, how is this any different than removing a limb? I would say it is not. You could remove the magazine from the library, put up a filter on the internet that will block any pornographic site, and have all the women in the world dress modestly, but still you will find men who struggle with lust. Removing the object is only a temporary fix; beneficial, but only for a short time. This issue is one's heart and not the object itself. Origen emasculated himself because he struggled with lust while teaching some female students. (On a side note, check out Galatians 5:12 for an interesting passage on emasculation--well said Paul!) He regretted this because he still struggled with lust. Even blind men struggle with lust. It seems to me that Jesus is speaking about dealing with sin by any means necessary--and we deal with sin when we deal with our hearts.
The real issue here, in my opinion, is not the magazines or pictures FPU allows--but what is FPU, as a Christian university, doing to help people address the heart issue of sin? Wouldn't is be amazing if guys could see that magazine and see the beauty of God's creation and be able to walk away? I am not trying to say that it is "art"...I am not quite sure what my take is on that...(in fact, the big problem I see with pornography is its relation with human trafficking). Just some of my thoughts. I look forward to responses.
Posted by J.D.
Re: Nice Rack
J.D.,
You are right. I am coming to find out that this is far more complicated than I first thought. %)
Great use of scripture. So the object doesn't cause us to sin but it is our own heart that causes us to sin. Ok. These verse came to mind - Matthew 7:9-11 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" I see certain objects as snakes. If you get comfortable with a snake in your proximity then sooner or later its going to bite. Therefore let's get rid of the snake prior to that happening.
I had no idea what "emasculate" meant so I asked Webster. Wow. That's taking it pretty seriously. I am definitely not going to promote that. :[
I really like what you said about helping "people address the heart issue of sin". I know that the first step towards doing that is having people admit that it is a problem and second for others to accept them and help them. There is such a stigma about sin in general but especially sexual sin.
"Wouldn't is be amazing if guys could see that magazine and see the beauty of God's creation and be able to walk away?" That would be amazing beyond words.
Posted by Kyle Guess
hey brother It looks like you have created quite the conversation!! I am proud for your stance and calling the school to a higher level. I would expect a christian university to have different standards and I think as a result of your speaking out there will be those who think through this issue differently! proud of you!!
Re: Nice Rack
I agree with J.D. for the most part, but I don't think that's the biggest problem with the display of the magazine. Sure, the temptation comes from the heart and we can't block the temptation, but that doesn't mean we have to accept that magazine. I think we could all agree that certain items can generally cause more stumbling than others. I would argue that this is one of those items. We don't have to display it so why should we? If people want to find that specific issue of SI than they could find it elsewhere....
Posted by M.M.
M.M.,
Clarification needed... the issue that was on the rack, as I understand because I chose not to flip through it, was a regular issue with a cover and some pages of seductive women in swimsuits. It was NOT a swimsuit issue.
A friend was telling me that during this time of the year things slow down in the sports world so they have to pick up sales somehow. To do this they throw in a little preview of what you could get with their other issue.
So, it wasn't THE swimsuit issue but I still think it was inappropriate.
Re: Nice Rack
Children are not allowed to be in the pacific library without parental supervision. This isnt about what is appropriate for "children." From what i gather, its about "drawing the line" at a Christian university. I looked through the issue. Its girls in bikinis. You can see girls in bikinis at the school pool. Do you suggest making them all wear one-pieces because its too distracting for the men on campus? or taking the pool out all together? Nobody is raising their 9 year old boys at the Fresno Pacific Library.
Posted by V.D.
Re: Nice Rack
By the way, please do not address any more posts to me. My questions are rhetorical. Ponder them to yourself, im not interested in the answers. I have given my opinion and i will not be responding to this anymore. Thanks :)
Posted by V.D.
Re: Nice Rack
Ok, my bad. But I think the point remains. We shouldn't endorse any issue with that kind of material on the cover. (By endorse, I mean display it and sell it).
Posted by M.M.
Re: Nice Rack
I do realize that children are not allowed in the library without supervision. Sharing about the kid wasn't a ploy. It was however, I felt, a good glimpse into the contrasting perceived normality that exists between the world and today's church.
I asked this little guy's mom if she had told him about my conversation with his dad about this topic. She said no and that her son had made the connection on his own. Why can it be so simple for kids and so complicated for adults when viewing the same thing?
Posted by Kyle Guess
Re: Double Take
...frustration with the gap between what we say we believe and how we live our lives.
I most certainly agree that there is a an unfortunate gap among the students of Fresno Pacific between what we say we believe and how we live out those beliefs. I am also saddened that there is such a gap between our school's core values and beliefs and how our school lives out those values and beliefs.
Posted by E.M.
"Why can it be so simple for kids and so complicated for adults when viewing the same thing?"
Kids are pure at heart. They have not yet been completely exposed to the ways of our world. They view everything from a sin-less point of view. Only those around them will affect how they view things later in life. Every person on this planet has a greater impact to those around them than they think. Everything is interconnected, what one person does today can impact someone elses way of life half way around the world. Life is very complicated, especially as you get older. I wish we all had the innocence of children. If you every want to see god face to face (an example of man being made in gods image) then just look at children. We have a tendancy to allow politics, religion, and other things of this world to influence how we see things, children do not have that burden and thus their points of view are not tampered with and are as pure and innocent as humans can be. I know this doesn't say much about the magazine topic, but i think everybody else has said enough already.
My point of view: well, what really bothers me is the level at which this country and this world has been de-sensitized. However, everything is a matter of relevance. What is seen as a bad thing today might not be have been 100 years ago, and it might not be 100 years into the future. In the chinese culture a long time ago the men would marry primarly young girls around the age of 13-14. People go to jail for that today, but in that era in that part of the world it was the norm.
Yes the devil has a very good handle on influencing humans on this planet, it's our duty to restrain ourselves from those temptations and to educate others of what should be done, and that is what you have done here Kyle is educate others. Mission accomplished.
Now i'll be the first person to tell you that i know the difference between moral and unmoral, right and wrong, but i will still knowingly give in to those temptations. I'm not as strong as Kyle is, i would have admired the magazine and read through it to find more. But hey, that's just my sinful nature, i'm not perfect. That's not an excuse for my actions by any means, it's just the brutal truth. Yes I know it's wrong as it relates to the bigger picture, no it doesn't make me a pervert, it makes me human. Dont be surprised when you see these things, in fact you should expect it. It's sad to say but in order to really get through this life on earth i've set very low expectations for people around me, that way i'm not as dissappointed when the inevitable happens, they sin. We are all capable of anything, expect the unexpected. Have a big loving heart and see people for who they are not what they do.
But who we are directs what we do and vice vera. Ahhh! Sob.
BTY I am not strong.
Ok, so i read the articles posted in the FPU school paper about this topic, you really stirred up some stuff didn't you kyle. That's ok, everybody loves a good debate and controversial topics.
However, after reading both articles i finally came to a conclusion that will help everyone wrap up this topic and put it to rest for good.
And for that i will reference 3 verses: Matthew 5:29, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47.
If you are not familiar or haven't read them, it's Jesus basically saying that if our eyes lead us to temptations to sin then we would be better off plucking our eye out and remove the ability to sin. Dont take it literally and pluck your eye out, but in general I interpret this to mean that you should remove the things in your life that might lead you to sin. For the authors of those articles in the paper i say shame on you, you have obviously conformed to the ways of this world and allowed yourself to be de-sensitized. To say we are on a witch hunt.........and need to be better than book burners............PLEASE! Jesus has clearly instructed us here to avoid temptations that lead to sin, and for something as simple as removing a magazine out of a christian university library, it's not as controversial as some people may think.
Wamo, problem solved, scripture to the rescue again. Post that in your school paper, see what they think then.
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